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Andy: Welcome to Meadows on the Mic, Student Highlight Edition. This is a new series highlighting students from Professor Chris Coates Creative Production for Communication course, who have produced the Hello Hilltop podcast series as an assignment for this class. Each episode features an alum or friend of the Meadow School who has made notable professional strides and is ready to share their best career advice with listeners. These interviews are researched and produced by these students and we're happy to feature their talents on our show.  On this episode, Miranda González interviews èßäÊÓƵapp alum Jorge Baldor. Jorge is the founder and curator of the Latino Arts Project, winner of the 2024 èßäÊÓƵapp Distinguished Alumni Award and is a member of the Meadows Executive Board. On the show, they discuss Jorge's challenges as an immigrant living in the US and his passion for philanthropic projects. Let's listen in.

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Miranda: Hello everyone and welcome to Hello Hilltop! I'm Miranda González, a psychology major at èßäÊÓƵapp. Today I'm interviewing entrepreneur and philanthropist, Jorge Baldor, also known as George, who will be receiving èßäÊÓƵapp's Distinguished Alumni Award this October on Halloween night. Originally from Cuba, George has helped transform Dallas through funding organizations such as After 8 to Educate, Mercado 365, and the Latino Center for Leadership Development. And these are only a few of the many accomplishments we will dive into today. It is an honor to be speaking with George about his work and his continued dedication to addressing social issues, especially with his upcoming recognition at èßäÊÓƵapp. 

Hello, George. It's so good to have you here today. As a successful entrepreneur and philanthropist, you have received several awards for the huge impact you have made within our community. This October on Halloween night, you will be receiving èßäÊÓƵapp's Distinguished Alumni Award, which is the highest honor the university can bestow upon its graduates. This is also an award very few Latino men have been honored with. So how does it feel to be receiving such a prestigious award? 

George: Well, the recognition from èßäÊÓƵapp as a distinguished alumni is something that really stands out for me as in the honors and recognitions that I've had because I have poured so much into èßäÊÓƵapp and so much of èßäÊÓƵapp is in me. And so I have such an identity with this university that it's a very special award.

Miranda: Yeah, I mean, it really is a special award and you very much deserve it. So, congratulations.

George: Thank you.

Miranda: Now I wanna go back to the beginning. You came from Havana, Cuba at the age of six with your family. What was that experience like? Did you have a hard time getting out of Cuba?

George: It was, you know, the government of Fidel Castro had taken over on January 1st of 59, so things changed rapidly and my parents decided to leave. And so one of the things that we found was that families were separated at leaving. A lot of times, you know, one or two of the family members were not allowed to go, so the families had to make a decision whether they all went or stayed. And so sometimes families were divided and sometimes reunited and oftentimes not. But my parents decided that if we weren't all coming, none of them were coming. So my father put in the application to leave and it took 11 months. And during that time period, he was, when you put in the application, they come to your home, they do an inventory of all your belongings. And then you have to resign your job, your position, until they tell you. And it said, you know, for our case, it was almost a year. Luckily, we were living with my grandparents, so, you know, we didn't have that hardship, but a lot of people did. And so when you get the papers to leave, then they take that inventory sheet and you have to turn in everything that was on that sheet.

Miranda: Oh my God. Yeah, you guys were left with nothing.

George: Absolutely left with nothing. So you know, one of the things that had happened to my dad was during that year time, he had added flat tires. So he put the spare on. So when he goes to turn into his car, because he has to do that, they refuse to accept it because when they did inventory, there were five full tires. So they made him go and buy a tire to put in the spare so he could give it to them and to go out. That's the kind of, that's the kind of, yeah, humiliation that they were trying to.

Miranda: They really just want to make it hard for you.

George: Absolutely.

Miranda: So, would you say that these initial challenges you encountered as an immigrant in a way inspired you to want to help other Latinos living in the state?

George: Right. I mean, you have a shared common experience and, you know, coming from different countries, they're all different experiences. Like for example, you know, the Cuban experience has been one where, you know, you step on soil and you automatically have the green card. So, it's not the same immigrant experience that you see today on the border or you see through, you know, different, you know, parts of the world that are bringing immigrants. But you have that commonality and you have that, that sense of, you know, coming from a background where your parents have decided for your behalf to give up everything that they know that they're comfortable with, that, you know, their routines and their friends so that, you know, you could have a future. So it brings with it a responsibility for us to look back and say, you know, what can we do to make it, you know, better or easier for those who are making that same journey right now?  Yeah, you know, the culture is so strong and that's one of the things that we as immigrants bring to this country is this rich culture and this rich experience that, you know, it creates a new fabric for the American experience.

Miranda: Yeah, I totally agree. Continuing the story, you got to Dallas a few years past and you graduate from Dallas ISD Skyline High School.

George: That's right.

Miranda: You started attending èßäÊÓƵapp after becoming an entrepreneur seven years after graduating high school to be exact. So you did that backwards. Most people, you know, they do college and then they start their careers. So that is very impressive that already at the age of, I'm guessing you were 18, you were so ambitious and you have said in interviews that you attended èßäÊÓƵapp to gain educational experience for your own enrichment, not a career.  So how do you feel your education at èßäÊÓƵapp specifically in history and political science? That's the way you studied, correct?

George: That's right.

Miranda: How do you feel that shaped or improved in your case, improved your approach to business and philanthropy?

George: Yeah, I mean, I guess to your point, I've never really been one to follow the typical path and been kind of really creating my own along the way.

Miranda: I can see how that's great.

George: And you know, it comes with its challenges too. But when after I was out of high school, I really wasn't ready to go to college or university. It wasn't really my time. And I've always had an entrepreneurial eye and a spirit for that. So, I've taken that chance with a lot of projects that I've done along the way and organizations.

But for me, the èßäÊÓƵapp experience, what it gave me was a better understanding with a bigger picture understanding, more of a global, more geopolitical. You know, these are terms that today are very common. But back in the day, that wasn't so common. Really, the education at èßäÊÓƵapp was really a step ahead. And they were talking here. They were teaching geopolitical courses way before that was something you would find in a common study. And so I think it helped me see things broader, understanding patterns of why things happen and what the cause and effects are of different movements and whether it's a political movement or economic movement. You understand what's behind it and what it leads to. And it really kind of opened my eyes to seeing the world in a different way.

Miranda: Yeah, totally. So talking about èßäÊÓƵapp, you've been involved with and have supported projects for four different schools on èßäÊÓƵapp and you have received many awards as a result. Why is it so important to give back to èßäÊÓƵapp for you?

George: You know, I think that èßäÊÓƵapp is an opportunity, particularly for people of color, to make a difference. You know, typically in our community, it's like it's seen as something that's for somebody else and that it's not something that's achievable and it's not something that's within our realm. And I think that supporting the students that are here really makes that easier to have a broader experience and create more role models that can go back into the community and spread the word.  You know, this èßäÊÓƵapp is for us as well.

Miranda: Yeah, that's great. I mean, on behalf of the student body, thank you so much for everything you've done. And you've been involved in even more philanthropic pursuits outside of èßäÊÓƵapp and have been recognized for your outstanding citizenship. But you don't like the spotlight and that's been well-documented. When you were nominated by the Dallas Morning News as a finalist for Texan of the Year, they called you the quiet philanthropist who has helped transform Dallas. You've done so much, we don't even have time to list them all or we'd be sitting here for hours, you know? So, I'm just gonna straight up ask you what all you have accomplished, which is a lot. What project has meant the most to you? Like what lights you up the most and why?

George: Right, I think they're all important to me for different reasons and they've had different impacts in different communities. And so it's really kind of hard to pick one of the projects to do that. But the reality of it is the one that stands out as I guess the legacy project is the “After Eight to Educate”. Because there you're not talking about cultural exchange, you're not talking about aesthetics, you're only talking about survival. And these are kids that have been living under a bridge or in a car and so now they have a place to live and now they have a path to education and to life skills that help them change trajectories. But I've learned so much.

The way you find in these projects is that you learn more than what you put in, you always take more out. And that's what the conversations that I've had, understanding that when you're talking to someone that's desperately in a situation where they literally have nothing to their name, they have absolutely not a dime, not a resource, not a relative to call on, not a, they're just alone in this world and the resilience that they have and what you see in a conversation with them is that you quickly realize that they have the same dreams, aspirations and hopes as everyone else. is just that their resources to be able to achieve those are really non-existent at this point.  And so it's a matter of trying to help connect them with resources that are there to help them to do that. And then discover who they are, discover that they have value, that they have worth, that their opinion matters. A lot of the youth that we work with, no one has ever asked them how their day is. No one's ever asked them what they think or feel about any subject. And so you can imagine that oscillation, that feeling of being unworthy because no one cares. And so that's kind of some of the layers that you have to work through to be able to get to them as the humanity part of it. But I think all of the projects have that humanity aspect to it. Just like the “Latino Arts Project”, we do a lot of art related, but we do with meaningful art that like the exhibit that we have on “La Frontera”, the border. It's humanizing the effect of immigration. There are a lot of political reasons about it and you can have a lot of conversations, but at the end of the day, there are people dying crossing the border. So, that's unacceptable. So, let's find a way to, obviously we have to secure borders. It can't be just an open border, but there has to be a human way, humanity involved in the decisions that are made. So, let's find what we have in common, that we don't want people dying. We have that in common. So, how do you get a policy that people that are eligible for asylum, laws that have already been written to this country that qualify someone for asylum, how do we process it in a humanity way, in a human way, that you can get them what they have a right to do. And so you can't just throw everyone and lump them into everyone's coming for this reason or that reason, or they're gonna do this, they're gonna do that. We don't know, but we don't know who's gonna cross that border and cure cancer. We don't know who's gonna cross that border and solve problems that we have here that we've had academic studies for decades and no one's been able to come up with a solution and someone's gonna come through that. Immigrants look at our presidential candidates that we have. We have a daughter of immigrants that are probably the most unlikely parents to meet in a university setting that came to study and their daughter is a candidate for president of the United States.

And so that's what drives people to come to this country. That's not going to stop. That pull and that push to get people in here is not going to stop. So let's get it organized.  And so having art exhibits where you can find commonality in a piece of art that people enjoy that may have different political views is a way to start conversations. And that's why we like to do art as exhibits in arts to have art talks, to have discussions, to have a way of bringing people together that otherwise wouldn't be in the same room.

Miranda: Yeah, so talking about, you mentioned the Latino Arts Project.

George: Yes.

Miranda: One of your main goals has been for Dallas to value and see the culture and contribution of the city's majority as the group, Latinos. So, as a result, you created Markel 369, which is a cultural space for the community filled with Latino art, history, and pride. In multiple interviews, you emphasize the importance in taking pride in who you are in your culture and your history. Why do you think showcasing one's culture and roots is so important for personal development?

George: Well, I grew up in Oak Cliff, over by Wynwood Shopping Center, with the Grinder Middle School.

Miranda: It's a large Mexican community.

George: Very large Mexican community. There's a lot of pride about being Mexican. I would say a great majority of the young people in Oak Cliff that take this tremendous pride can't name two states in Mexico, barely speaks Spanish, if anything at all, have very little understanding about the basic cultural aspects of the country.

Miranda: We call them whitexicans.

George: Yes. And so, you know, that's really kind of the, you know, behind a lot of this is there's plenty of reason to have pride in Mexico. I love Mexico, but you should know what it is and you should not rely on someone else telling you what being Mexican means and, you know, how that fits into the history of this country. And if you don't know it yourself, if you don't study it and you don't follow what the cultural lines are to get, you know, from 400 years ago to today, then, you know, then you're missing out on your culture and you know, you're on the surface, but you're not really understanding why, you know, you have that pride.

Miranda: Yeah, totally. Talk about Mexican culture reminds me, you received the Ohtli Award, which is, yeah, which is the highest award given by the Mexican government to an individual living outside of Mexico for the promotion of Mexican culture. And like you said, this award is rarely, rarely granted to a non-Mexican citizen, which makes it an even bigger deal. 

George: It does!

Miranda: Is there a deeper connection to Mexican culture that you would like to share?

George: Yes. I mean, I think that, I think, you know, it's interesting as you travel the world, you know, you go to different places and you like different things and you can connect with different things and, you know, you can identify. But I think that the connection that I have with Mexico is much deeper than, than I have, you know, of any, any place else that I've been. I've had a chance to visit more than half the states in Mexico.

I go frequently to places that are not, you know, usually traveled by tourists because I really want to see the authentic Mexico and what it is. And there are a lot of authentic Mexico's and that's what, you know, that's the beauty of the culture there is the variety. You know, there's the art forms that are different. You know, you have the Huichol, you know, you have all the different cultures that influence Mexico throughout the centuries to do that and the great accomplishments in, in so many different fields. That's the, the natural wonder of the country. S,o but then we have the challenges, you know, we have the challenges of, you know, of, of education, of, you know, poverty not being addressed and, you know, the, the, the political turmoil that's part of the normal life there. And so that's, you know, that's the juxtaposition of Mexico that I think makes it even more interesting than, than, than other places. You know, you, you love Mexico for, for being Mexico, you know, there's no place else like it. But one of the things that I learned after the exhibit that we did at the DMA…

Miranda: Yeah, the 1900 to 1950.

George: Yes. Yeah. That was really a representation of the art after the revolution. And so for the first time, if you look at the art that was in Mexico prior to that is very European Eurocentric. But then after the revolution, you know, the art changed and people started seeing themselves in the art. And so they wanted to give the message after the revolution, but because the, the literacy rate was so low that they really didn't know how to do that. So what they turned to was the Catholic church and the example that you find with the stained glass that you've seen, you know, in, in all the churches as a way of telling the story. And so that's where you started getting the murals that were like in the health department, education department, you know, telling you about hygiene, telling you about the importance of, you know, education. And so with visual communication tools. So I love the way art has been, has played such a part in transforming the society.  And, and I think what happened in Mexico that's unique is that because of these art movements, you created such a commonality with people looking at the same thing and creating that, that sense of pride, that that sense of pride still today is very. And I would say any other country, I think, you know, um, the, well, you can see it in sports when, when there's a team playing, um, you know, if, if, you know, typically, you know, uh, Mexicans are more state oriented, you know, you're, you're, you're identified with your state in these months. Yeah, exactly. But if you're in an international competition and, you know, and Mexico's in it, it doesn't matter what state you're from. Mexico is we, yeah. That's right. We, yeah. It's so funny. I always think about that. How like just humans just naturally gradually, like we need to be a part of like something we do something bigger than us. Yeah. And it also relates to like your emphasis on like showcasing your culture.

Miranda: Cause like, it gives you a sense of like belonging and identity and pride.

George: It does.

Miranda: But, um, I need to ask, where did your love for the arts begin? Cause like you've done so much in the art world.

George: Yeah. You know, um, it's interesting because I never realized how early on I was influenced by art or I enjoyed art. And, um, a couple of years ago, um, you know, one of the young men that I've mentored, uh, was accepted into, uh, into Cornell for architecture school. And so as, as a, as graduation gifts, I wanted to give him a couple of pieces of art that I've had in my house. And then when I was getting that together, I was realized that I bought those when I was 19 and I didn't even realize that, you know, I've been collecting art and doing it cause there wasn't anything that was doing it consciously, it was just kind of along the way, you know, you find things. It was, it was natural. I like the aesthetics, you know, I liked the, I liked the, the stories that you see in art and I think, you know, it tells, it tells the story. And then, you know, I've been a historian, um, you know, it's, it's all about history and telling stories.

Miranda: Yeah. And so back to your work in helping the Latino community. Um, one of the many important things you've done so far as a Latino center for leadership development, also known as the CLD, where you train future Latino leaders to make positive impacts on our community and even in our country, so how do you see the future of Latino leadership in the US and what do you think needs to happen to support and grow more Latino leaders in the US in the future?

George: Right! So, the main emphasis for the LCLD, you know, had been political, um, getting involved in the, in the decision making, being inside the room and, you know, and being the one on the side of the table that, you know, that makes the decisions being maybe the first one for first Latino to be in that role, in that position, but certainly not being the last, you know, preparing two or three people behind you so that when it's your time to leave that position, that you have someone who's prepared, that it's, that it's their time in life to be in that position as well. So you can't just prepare one person because it may not be in their cycle either, so you have to keep that happening. But the reality of it is, um, that I placed less emphasis on that now and really more on the economic development. Um, we hear a lot about school admissions and, you know, rising, you know, entering freshmen that the percentages that, you know, the numbers are rising, the population numbers rising, you know, everything's rising except for graduation rates, except for income, except for, you know, the, we're not keeping up in that regard. Um, we're not really moving the needle on, uh, on corporate boards or, or, uh, um, you know, in, in positions of making decisions in, in corporations. I think that's where we need to put, you know, cause at the end of the day, if we don't achieve economic equity, the rest of it doesn't really matter. You're not going to use the power to, to achieve what you want to do.

And so I think the emphasis really needs to be more on being prepared, being understanding, um, you know, know what a balance sheet is, know, you know, the power that you have in that role on a board and deciding who the vendors are that are going to be selected by that company, the direction of the product development, whether it's going to be something that's going to be, um, used or understood by the Latino community, as opposed to, you know, we're the second thought on this. And so there's so many companies that want to emphasize, you know, the market and they want to draw the money out of the Latino market, but they're not putting anything back in to enhance it or make it better or products that are not easily adjustable to that, to the culture or just being ignored.

Miranda: I'm just thinking about like the point you made about college people graduating less and less. I didn't even think about that but I guess it makes a little sense. But it reminded me you've also provided more than 100 individual educational grants providing critical resources to support travel abroad and cover tuition for high school and college students. It seems safe to say you're like a superhero! But is that like is that why like you have like this drive to like that's like I've noticed that education is so important even after to educate like not only is it shelter you guys are having like helping with education and hygiene and everything.

George: Yeah, I mean I think education is the one way to change lives and so you know we have opportunities here in this country and that's why you know those that came before us or when we came was to be able to get those opportunities but if you're not prepared to take advantage of those opportunities then you're missing out. And so you know as an entrepreneur you train your mind always to be looking for opportunities and that's something that you know it becomes it becomes kind of like OCD when you walk into a restaurant you're like why is the door open to the left not to the right why is the line over here why you know everywhere you go because you're always looking for opportunities to make things better or easier and so that's a that's really a real entrepreneur that you know you're always looking for that. But the second part of it is you have to constantly be preparing yourself so that when you recognize that opportunity you can act upon it because you know it's so frustrating that's why a lot of people say oh I thought about that idea years ago I could have done that but you didn't because you know you weren't prepared to do it and so or you didn't have the self-confidence that comes with being prepared to take those steps and actually make it happen. So, but you know, yeah, I think we have to be prepared.

Miranda: Yeah, that actually answers my next question and say being an entrepreneur can be so scary like the number of ideas I've personally had and just throwing away out of fear especially obviously the fear of failure is insane like I maybe I could have been the founder of something too and absolutely it's it's clear like fearing failure is what really holds us back from taking risks and being innovative but you've successfully founded several impactful projects I mean like the title: Founder, it could be your first name at this point so you're the perfect person to ask you already gave it to us but what advice would you give to someone looking to start their own business like how did you get that necessary confidence to just do it?

George: Yeah, you know I mean I've always felt like that there could be more you know I think culturally we hold ourselves back because you know we're taught you know be grateful for what you have absolutely be grateful for what you have but I think a lot of people stop there and they don't realize that that doesn't mean that you can't want more and that there's not more and so you know we have a lot of first-gen you know college graduates that are really proud because they're making you know more money than both of their parents combined but what they're comparing it to are two people that are overworked and underpaid and so if that's what your goal is then you're going to easily achieve that but when you're when you have the the the parity the equity with the people that are hiring your parents that's the conversation we need to have because that's what you're capable of doing as well and you have to give yourself permission to make mistakes and that you know if you're going to make decisions you're going to make mistakes and and go from it you know you do and you have to analyze the mistakes that you make and so you know there's two different kinds of mistakes I think and that one is that you didn't do enough research, you didn't study it well enough before you made your decision, and the other is things are just you know you you made a selection with the best information available, but things changed and so you were it was out of your control and so you have to figure out how your mistakes are are they things that you just aren't doing the research and then you have to tighten up on that or is it because you know something an act of god happened or you know you had a 9/11 or you had you know the the COVID or something that's going to be out of control that all the planning in the world and all the you know the the strategy meetings that you have are going to go out the window because none of the none of that data adapts anymore so I think um for people coming out of business school, and I should probably not say this at èßäÊÓƵapp, but for people coming out of business school, I've been asked several times, you know, what do you suggest? And then my suggestion is really forget everything you learned in there, because it teaches you fear.

All the things that can possibly go wrong is what you're gonna learn. And so what does that mean? You go with, you know, with fear ahead of you. You know, use your common sense, your instinct, you know, trust yourself, trust your judgment.  You're a great consumer. So, you know what you like and why you like it. And so that tells you that, you know, that those are trends to follow. And so, you know, like Warren Buffett, I mean, he buys whatever the products that he likes. If he likes this ice cream, he's gonna buy it because he's gonna, he's figures that his taste isn't that unusual from the rest of the world so that, you know, if he really likes it, he sees something special in it. There is something special in it. You have to trust your instinct.

Miranda: Yeah, totally. Like the Buddha say, overthinking is the key to all suffering.

George: Yeah, that's...

Miranda: I wanna go back to after age to educate because that's what, like, I'm just like fascinated by that project. What inspired you to wanna focus on this issue on homeless teens?

George: So, in the spring, there are always education stories that are in the news and emphasizing the valedictorian, this and that. And there was a story about 3,500 homeless high school students in DISD. I was astonished. I couldn't believe it because, you know, I live in the middle of the high rises and all the, you know, the wealth of the city thinking, you know, the whole world's fine. And then you don't realize that this is what's really happening. So, I was working on a couple of projects like normal and was having conversations with people in my life and just two of them, just right off the top. That was their experience. You know, one is an international speaker and the other one is an attorney for, you know, one of the large firms and in high school, they had been homeless. And so I had to go out. In my little circle, you know, you're already finding this, it's something to it. And so I kind of put it aside and a couple of years later, it was always in the back of my mind because it really was, you know, astonishing. And then spring a couple of years later, another story comes out in the Dallas Morning News and it's 3,500 homeless high school students. I think no one's doing anything. So let's jump in and figure it out. With the entrepreneurial mindset, you know, we're gonna find out what is the solution and then we're back into how did we get there? And so did a lot of studies with, you know, the mental health part of it, which is the key. I think to this, these youth are not only going through normal adolescence, but they're also going through abandonment. And if you don't work through abandonment and it's gonna be showing up in personal and professional relationships the rest of your life.

And so as we developed this program and, you know, we were able to secure a formerly shuttered elementary school, 25,000 square foot building right by Fair Park. And so as we were repurposing the building, it took into the effect the psychological needs of the youth not just the physical need and so it was designed with small individual spaces because some days as you work through that abandonment you need to be by yourself some days you can be in a group for three or four people and some of you can be in the larger setting to do that so this is the only shelter in the country that's really designed to accommodate that those stages of growth you know as someone works through that and so we do a lot of innovative programming you know we we had an advisory group of adults that about a third of them you know that had been their experience but we also had another advisory group of students half of them were from Hockaday and the other half were from Thomas Jefferson High School all the kids from TJ were experiencing homelessness or had been on the street and so they this group met for a year and they came up with some incredible ideas and suggestions that we implemented all throughout the center you know for one is the dormitories instead of being being numbered they're lettered, so it's you know a little bit more personalized art inspiring art is all over, but one of the things that they suggested was having a podcast room so we're the only shelter in the country that has a podcast room. It's a fully furnished one that was donated and you know as part of the service but it's a way to express it's a way to you know release those emotions and feelings um we do a lot of art-oriented uh you know programming as you can imagine art is such a good way to release emotions as well.

Miranda: I completely agree.

George: Yeah and so we're trying to be sensitive to you know all the overall needs and growth and development but you can't do it alone you know we do a lot of we have a lot of collaborative partners we have about 20 organizations that specialize in different areas where you know they meet the same requirements and the needs for the youth that we service so we we work with them to enhance the services you know that's what you know in Dallas county alone there are 17,000 non-profits this is amazing.

Miranda: Oh my god!

George: It's a crazy, crazy number!

Miranda: Yeah!

George: You probably need about 10 percent of those most of the other ones are overlapping services and basically, it's someone that wants to have their name on a non-profit to to say they have a name on the non-profit but the reality of it is that there are other organizations that are being effective at doing things you just have to wade through and figure out which ones are really actually doing something that's productive and collaborate and join with them and so that's how we've done it

Miranda: I totally agree! As a psychology major, I've become very aware of the detrimental effects these challenges can have on people, especially at such a critical stage of development. So, thank you for changing lives and for truly considering ways to improve, such as the podcast room and the art program. It really is very admirable.

To conclude our conversation, thank you for your time. On behalf of the student body who have benefited from your generosity, congratulations on the èßäÊÓƵapp award! We can't wait to celebrate you on Halloween night.

George: Thank you so much! I appreciate the time today!

Miranda: Another big thanks to our audience for listening! Don't forget to catch our other podcasts on SoundCloud, iTunes, and more. Make sure to follow us on social media by visiting our Facebook and Instagram accounts at èßäÊÓƵapp Hello Hilltop, where you can find behind-the-scenes info and updates on upcoming podcasts. Until next time, we'll see you on the Hilltop!

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Andy: Thank you for tuning into this episode of Meadows on the Mic, Student Highlight Edition, and a big thank you to Miranda González for sharing her interview. For more student-produced episodes in this series, check out the Hello Hilltop channel on Soundcloud or iTunes. Thank you for listening!